10 AUGUST 1940

PURANI: It seems that when Dilip was in Calcutta, he took Bose to Baron and introduced him. That is how they know each other.

SRI AUROBINDO: Dilip has no sense of these things at all. He thinks, "You are a good man, he is a good man, both should meet each other." (Laughter)

PURANI: Hitler's Blitzkrieg has got a rude shock.

Page -845

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, to lose sixty planes in one attack is something. Italy also has got a knock in Libya. She lost about sixteen.

NIRODBARAN : The British superiority in the air has now been proved. If only they can achieve equality in numbers.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Hitler is superior on land only.

PURANI: Somebody from Punjab, who has come for Darshan had a severe haemorrhage from the nose. I had to call Dr. André; he gave an injection and the bleeding stopped.

SRI AUROBINDO: These people ought to pay André.

PURANI : Yes, this man will pay. It seems he has disposed of all his property and has come to stay here permanently, but he hasn't received a favourable reply. That may have helped to cause the haemorrhage.

SRI AUROBINDO: How could he make his arrangements without permission? Was he in communication with us?

PURANI: He wrote three or four letters but got no reply. I told him that he should not have acted so hastily.

SATYENDRA: People take the silence as a test.

SRI AUROBINDO: If he took it as a test the result was rather bad, as he got a haemorrhage.

SATYENDRA: Munji has asked us to accept whatever we get from the Government and fight for more.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that is Tilak's policy - accept even a quarter loaf.

EVENING

The Pétain Government has acceded to Japan's demand for naval military bases in Indo-China; at first it was reported they would resist.

SRI AUROBINDO: That means the end of Indo-China.

PURANI: Yes.

SRI AUROBINDO: The Pétain Government must have over-ridden Admiral Decoux's order to fight. Why do these French admirals brandish their swords and then put them back? If they resist now, there may be some chance. Otherwise it is the end of Indo-China.

PURANI: Yes. Besides, the Chinese have announced that they will resist Japan's claim. So they can combine.

Page -846

NIRODBARAN: Japan is following the Russian policy. First base, then government.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, change of government by the Left and then "you".

SATYENDRA: The British have quietly withdrawn their forces from Shanghai.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that is more dignified.

NIRODBARAN: The Pétain Government is putting one hundred people on trial for bringing France into the war! And Mandel is the main figure.

SRI AUROBINDO: Mandel is the only man, clean and honest, who has not made money from politics. Laval and others are afraid of him. He is unpopular because of his straightforwardness.

SATYENDRA: He is a Jew. He refused to join his party with Ribbentrop when the latter proclaimed eternal friendship with France in 1937.

SRI AUROBINDO: The result of his eternal friendship is the swallowing up of a part of France.

SATYENDRA: The Indian Express say that the Congress ought to accept the Viceroy's offer, otherwise other people will come and take it.

SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. M. N.Roy has also advised unconditional support to the British Government. For once he has agreed with me.

NIRODBARAN: How? You didn't mean unconditional support!

SRI AUROBINDO: They ought to have done that at the beginning as Gandhi had said. They would have got much more and British public opinion also would have swung round. Even now if they accept the Viceroy's offer, it will come to the same thing. Otherwise they will either have to start civil disobedience or keep hanging.

NIRODBARAN: You said that if the British gave Dominion Status to India, a large part of their Karma would be wiped off

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes.

NIRODBARAN: Now they have offered it but if India doesn't accept, what will be the result to British Karma?

SRI AUROBINDO: I don't know!

PURANI: But where have they offered Dominion Status?

SRI AUROBINDO: Why, it is the same thing. They have offered free and equal partnership in the Commonwealth". That is the

Page -847

same as Dominion Status. They can't call it Dominion Status because Jinnah is opposed to it and the Congress too. Where it falls short is on the question of the minorities - if the minorities don't accept it, it can't be given. There is also the question of the expansion of the council, but that could be turned into a National Government later. And the other point against the offer is where they speak of their obligation to other people. I suppose they mean the native states.

NIRODBARAN: Gandhi is against abolition of the states.

SRI AUROBINDO: But Jawaharlal and all the socialists are not. So the only thing that really stands in the way is disagreement among Indians themselves.

PURANI: Yes, and we always put the blame on the English; we don't see our own faults. If we don't come to any measure of agreement, what can they do?

SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so.

PURANI: People say the British are causing and continuing the disagreement.

SRI AUROBINDO: Nonsense. As if there were no differences in India before. If people think that after the British withdrawal will be united, they will find it an illusion.

11 AUGUST 1940

PURANI: It seems that behind Japan's demand for naval military bases in Indo-China, there must be Hitler's pressure on the Pétain Government to accede to the Japanese demand.

SRI AUROBINDO: Quite possible.

PURANI : Hitler may want the Japanese to act as a check against the British and keep them engaged in the East while he carries the invasion.

SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps. Japan is still talking only of Indo-China, the East Indies and the South Sea Isles and not talking furtherr than that. But she may start an attack on Singapore after settling in those places. In that way the Japanese are a remarkable people. To them the first thing comes first; they can wait for the next. Once their scheme is fixed, they can wait for years to carry it out, and when the right moment comes they strike. Japan's influence in the East is, of course, good for us. It will serve as a counterpoise against

Page -848

Hitler and Stalin if England goes down and in the meantime we can prepare as much as we can unless we fly at each other's throat. We heard the other day -I don't know where - maybe on the radio, that the Kuomintang met and spoke of reducing the suffering of the people. The leaders wanted to adopt a pro-Fascist policy by lining up with Germany. That means the whole of the Far East for Japan. There was no confirmation of that news.

PURANI: Everybody is becoming pro-German now. The result of the French collapse.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, they think England will go down but are not quite sure. This is the first time the French Government is yielding like that — so flat and miserable. It must be very decadent

SATYENDRA: Malaviya is doing Shanti Swastyana now.

NIRODBARAN: There was in the New Statesman and Nation controversy over the efficacy of prayer. A taxi-driver said that the Belgian defection was the result of prayer.

SRI AUROBINDO: A humorous taxi-driver!

SATYENDRA: And another person said that the evacuation at Dunkirk was also the result of prayer.

NIRODBARAN: Some people here said jokingly that the Mother's gift to France was responsible for its collapse, as it came one week after the gift and they hope that England won't suffer such consequences after her gift to England.

SRI AUROBINDO: It may be said that this Channel-victory (sixty German planes lost) was due to that. Others may say something else. But the real purpose of the gift was to counteract the pro-Nazi propaganda in the Ashram and in that respect it has been successful.

PURANI: Hitler's 10th August has passed and nothing has happened.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. The threat to Indo-China, may be this event of the 10oth.

EVENING

SATYENDRA: One M. P. has contributed one lakh pounds to replace the sixteen British aeroplanes lost in the last German raid. Madras has given some money for two aeroplanes — whether for training or for the air force, we don't know.

SRI AUROBINDO: The Madras squadron of one aeroplane. (Laughter)

Page -849

NIRODBARAN: Dr. Mahendra Sircar has written to Charu Dutt that the Mother's gift to the Indian Government has surprised many in Calcutta. He wants some elucidation.

SATYENDRA: Why has Mahendra Sircar suddenly taken interest?

SRI AUROBINDO: There have been many others. Somebody has come from Calcutta to get elucidation on it. Jatin Sen Gupta protested at first when we gave ten thousand francs to France. But this gift to the Indian Government he has appreciated. But it should be plain enough: I want Hitler to be knocked down.

NIRODBARAN: I don't understand how Dr. Sircar can ask that question. Is he anti-British?

PURANI: Doesn't he know what will happen to him if Hitler comes to India?

SRI AUROBINDO: He will lose his pension or Mussolini may allow it for the sake of old times!

12 AUGUST 1940

SRI AUROBINDO (addressing Purani): Do you remember when Bose was arrested?

PURANI : It must have been about a month back — in July.

SRI AUROBINDO: Then how can they say that Bose met Baron on the 4th? Not only that, even after the interview Baron met the Bengal Governor and expressed his confidence in Bose. What is the matter then?

PURANI: Perhaps the Indian Government has taken steps over the head of the Bengal Government. But even so, they usually inform the local Government.

EVENING

PURANI: About Baron, perhaps Bonvain is trying to stay in tune with the Pétain Government and at the same time satisfy the British. Baron spoke openly in favour of alliance with the British in Calcutta.

SRI AUROBINDO: It seems to be a mystery. The Indian Government is refusing telegrams from the French it seems. If so,

Page -850

it may be a retaliation against the French for their action against the British in Syria.

Have you read Gandhi's argument in favour of Ahimsa? He says that non-violence has been in progress and that De Gaulle has now advised it to the French.

PURANI: That is because they have no other way.

SRI AUROBINDO: Gandhi admits that.

Sri Aurobindo was given Moni's article to read in reply to Meghnad Saha. Nolini Sen was much hurt by Moni's personal attack against Meghnad.

SRI AUROBINDO: I have read Moni's article - (laughing) it is personal all through. One can't but feel the sting there and the force. But Meghnad has also made personal attacks. So neither has any reason to complain.

PURANI: No. Moni's criticism can't be without personal attack.

13 AUGUST 1940

NIRODBARAN: Azad has refused to see the Viceroy.

SRI AUROBINDO: He has refused?

NIRODBARAN: Yes, he says that as there is no common ground, no use of any interview.

SATYENDRA: They will send a formal reply after the Working Committee meeting.

NIRODBARAN: And Nehru finds a wide gulf between the Congress demand and the Viceroy's statement.

SRI AUROBINDO: Oh Nehru! But he should have seen the Viceroy. At least Gandhi would have done that.

PURANI: No. All the same, since Kher and others are meeting the Viceroy they will know what he has to say.

SRI AUROBINDO: Where is the Viceroy now? In Hyderabad?

PURANI: Perhaps. He wants twenty crores from the Nizam, it seems.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that is because the Nizam is anti-British, perhaps? So the Viceroy wants to squeeze out whatever he can before the English go down. Doesn't want to leave anything for Hitler. (Laughter)

NIRODBARAN: But why is the Nizam anti-British?

Page -851

SRI AUROBINDO: Don't know, this is a funny world - a joke.

PURANI: Montbrun has already made a broadcast from Madras. He has now left for England to fight. He wants to be somebody and if England wins, he may be that.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, if England wins. But that is the risk an ambitious person has to take, and he is very ambitious.

PURANI: Dara has become double now. How fat he has grown!

SRI AUROBINDO: Is there room for that? And will his room hold him?

14 AUGUST 1940

Regarding Amery's statement, Sri Aurobindo remarked that minority question is a black spot because it leaves the power of vetoing with them.

16 AUGUST 1940

Today's evening radio says that 144 German planes have been brought down in England — the biggest number so far.

CHAMPAKLAL: That is the result of Darshan.

SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): The day of Hitler's triumphal entry into England!

NIRODBARAN: It seems Anandamayee of Dacca is dead.

SRI AUROBINDO: Oh! She is dead.

NIRODBARAN: It is reported in the paper.

SRI AUROBINDO: The disciples have killed her as they tried to do with the Maharshi by giving him dyspepsia?

NIRODBARAN: They say it must be due to the Divine Will.

SRI AUROBINDO: Everything is due to the DivineWill because the Divine Will is at the back of everything. But what is the Divine Will? The Will works through various factors — forces, one's own nature, etc. The murderer also can say that behind his murder there is the Divine Will. Then his being hanged also has to be taken in that light. Lele supported his queer acts by saying they were due to the Divine Will. If everything is taken like that, what is the use of doing Yoga?

(To Purani) I hear that the Darshan was a very happy one.

Page -852

PURANI: Yes, many people say that. Plenty of people saw you smiling.

NIRODBARAN: Dilip also said it was a very happy Darshan. But they want to know what your impression was.

SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, that! Ali looked as if he was the Nizam.

PURANI: You recognised Dutt this time?

SRI AUROBINDO; Yes, I recognised him by the old cut of his face as well as by the man behind.

17 AUGUST 1940

PURANI: Italy is trying to foment trouble in Greece.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and she says it is for the sake of the Albanians. Wonderful people these!

NIRODBARAN: I asked Ajit Chakravarty his opinion about Dilip's poetry and why Dilip is not appreciated in Bengal. He says that Dilip has not been able to blend bhava and bhasha¹ together and there are many lapses in his poetry. Of course, some of his pieces are very good, but they are very few. He doesn't consider that because Dilip has cut a new line he is not popular.

SRI AUROBINDO: The reason they don't like his poetry is because it is not traditional. It is mental poetry and not emotional like Nishikanta's.

SATYENDRA (before the topic could proceed further): We all heard Bhishma's music last night. (All of us expressed our appreciation of it in spite of its being only raga music.)

SRI AUROBINDO (after listening to us quietly, without making any remarks and then smiling): Unlike the other arts, music doesn't seem to have been modernised. There is no room for Cubism in music.

EVENING

Some friend has written to Purani that as he thinks everything is happening according to the Divine Will, there is no such thing as right or wrong.

¹bhava: mood, Sentiment; bhasha: speech, words.

Page -853

SRI AUROBINDO: Does he actually feel or perceive it or is it only a mental conception?

PURANI: Can't say. Looks as though he perceives it.

SRI AUROBINDO: What he may perceive may be the Cosmic Force. But what we seek is something higher than the Cosmic Force. One may say that the Cosmic Force is also the Divine Force or the Mother's Force. True, but the Mother's Force is acting through it under certain conditions for a certain purpose. The Cosmic Force works through Nature, which one has to observe and reject. Then it is not the question of right or wrong that has to be considered, but of Ignorance and Knowledge. Cosmic Force works in Ignorance according to the Law of Ignorance, whereas one has to pass from Ignorance to Knowledge.

18 AUGUST 1940

NIRODBARAN: Some time ago a long controversy was going on in Bengal regarding the place of katha in music: whether katha is greater or sur.¹ Though we know nothing of musical technique, we liked Bhishma's music so much that katha didn't seem at all necessary. Pure sur seems to have as much appeal.

SRI AUROBINDO: Pure music need not have any words. If words are there, they are an addition. They are not absolutely necessary. (Sri Aurobindo repeated this twice for emphasis.) If you say you can't have pure music without words, you can also say you can't paint a subject which is not literary.

NIRODBARAN: Tagore places a great value on words and he has developed his new Bengali music with importance given to katha and his own particular sur which nobody is allowed to vary.

SRI AUROBINDO: Is Tagore a musician?

NIRODBARAN: If I am right, Dilip also agrees with Tagore about the value of words and their place in music.

SRI AUROBINDO: Does he? That means then that he is a singer and not a musician. Like all other arts music has its own medium and it stands by itself. If it depended on words or poetry, it would be the poet's music.

SATYENDRA: Veena, sitar, etc., have no words to express, but their tunes are music all the same.

¹katha: words, narrative; sur. music, melody, tune.

Page -854

NIRODBARAN: Tagore contends that ustadi music¹ has now become much a matter of technique. There is no life in it. Perhaps because of that he doesn't like it.

SRI AUROBINDO: If it is technique only, it is not music.

NIRODBARAN: He says Bengali music must take its own way of expression and words will have a great place.

SRI AUROBINDO: Is music to be a commentary on words?

NIRODBARAN: He thinks that ustadi music is dead and has no chance of revival; its age is passed.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is because classical music has degenerated. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be revived and the remedy is not to give value to words or poetry, but to the soul of music. To leave it or forget it is not the way out. If words are indispensable for the appreciation of music, how can an Englishman listen to Italian music and like it?

SATYENDRA: Appreciation of pure music requires training.

PURANI: Everybody can't appreciate or criticise music. The ear and the aesthetic faculty have to be trained. You can see in Bhishmadev and Biren that they enter into the spirit of music. Beethoven's Symphonies are played with instruments only. When Bhishmadev sings you can see that he is conscious only of the notes and not of the words and that he tries to communicate his emotion through the notes.

NIRODBARAN: Some people say Dilip's music is spiritual and Bhishmadev's is aesthetic.

SATYENDRA: That is because Dilip sings Bhajans and religious songs.

PURANI: What I have found in Dilip's music is that the atmosphere created is due to something other than the music - his personality, maybe.

NIRODBARAN: Can pure music be spiritual?

SRI AUROBINDO: Of course.

SATYENDRA: So far as the spiritual atmosphere is concerned, it doesn't require a great musician to bring it. A spiritual person singing some devotional songs can create it.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is why I don't grant the contention of the modernist poets that in order to appreciate modern poetry you must read the poems aloud, because a clever elocutionist can

¹The music of the ustads or musical masters.

Page -855

make much out of bad and commonplace poetry. A poem which has no rhythm will sound very beautiful if read by an elocutionist.

NIRODBARAN: The same thing is said of Dilip's poetry: that when he reads it aloud, people like it, but they call it apathya (unreadable) when they try to read it. That is due, I think, to his new technique. Unless one knows the chhanda, one will stumble. It is not Tagore's simple and smooth chhanda.

SRI AUROBINDO: There are two things in Dilip's poeetry - subject and treatment. As regards the subject, he follows the pre-Tagore Bengali poetry — which is intellectual poetry — perhaps due to his father's influence, which I liked and miss in later poetry. He takes up an idea and puts it into poetical form. It is a poetry written from the poetic intelligence, as I say. The treatment is, as you say, his own technique which is a departure from old tradition. Tagore has brought in a new element of feeling and imagination and, as he is a genius, his poetry is beautiful. But Tagore can diffuse himself fifty or sixty lines and even then his idea doesn't come out. After Tagore, Bengali poetry has become wishy-washy. There is no intellectual backbone.

NIRODBARAN: Motilal has a certain originality.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes.

PURANI: Even in his poetry Tagore talks of death.

SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): Yes. In his Oxford convocation address he also did that. It is perhaps a form of self-defence. He may believe that by talking of death constantly, he will avoid it.

EVENING

SRI AUROBINDO (addressing Purani): Have you read Gandhi's new programme for mankind?

PURANI: No. What does he say?

SRI AUROBINDO: He wants to make everybody equal. Everybody will have a good house to live in and good food and, of course, khaddar. Nobody has yet been able to do this, though, not even Russia!

PURANI : We would like to see how he does it....

The Pétain Government has again declared its intention to resist a Japanese move in Indo-China.

SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes, they are adopting a see-saw policy. First they started hobnobbing with Japan, then tried to be

Page -856

fraternal, then tried to be friendly with China, turned again towards Japan and now combine against her. If the news is true, it means that Hitler doesn't want Japan to be master of the East.

NIRODBARAN: This eccentric Ajit Chakravarty asked Sisir —

SRI AUROBINDO: Is he an eccentric?

NIRODBARAN: No, I mean unsteady. He asked Sisir what he thinks and feels about you. Sisir replied, "That is a needless question. What did you feel?" Ajit said he felt as if you could shake the world (Sri Aurobindo smiled) and about Mother he felt extreme sweetness. He is also a great lover of poetry.

PURANI: He met Moni. He likes Moni's poetry better than his prose.

SRI AUROBINDO: I am afraid I can't agree. That is because he is a lover of poetry. Moni's prose has a force, especially his imaginative prose is remarkable. His prose Hasanter Patra (Letters of Hasanta) is good, but the other is better. In the prose of Hasanter Patra one cannot but feel the sting.

NIRODBARAN: Ajit likes Jyoti's prose better than her poetry.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is because her prose may be more mature. Her poetry is brilliant, but not mature yet.

NIRODBARAN: About her prose in that book Sandhane, Ajit said it is mature writing, though it was written earlier than Rakta Golap. About Rakta Golap he is not very keen. The style is very good, the poetry also and it is suggestive, but it is not a mature work. That is true, I think; her whole concentration was on style and the plot is a sort of mysticism.

SRI AUROBINDO: Mysticism in a novel? That is good in a short story.

PURANI: And there is plenty of talk and discussion.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is Dilip. That is better left to him. I turned the pages of his books here and there, and everywhere I found people talking and talking.

NIRODBARAN: That is the type and character of the intellectual novel, they say, which is not only story.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that is the Western influence, probably, In the New Statesman and Nation I read somebody who said that now the novel has been made a vehicle for everything: business, politics, religion, etc.

NIRODBARAN: Ajit found a mistake in a poem of mine where I had written "Cast away on a shoreless sea". He says that "cast

Page -857

away" means on an island or on a shore, but not in the sense of cast adrift.

SRI AUROBINDO: It is not bound by that meaning.

NIRODBARAN: And about Dilip's poetry, he says his English is better than his Bengali.

SRI AUROBINDO: He is mistaken.

NIRODBARAN: According to him, Dilip has not been able to blend bhava and expression correctly. About the expression "unbargaining hyaline" which Dilip has used somewhere, Ajit says it is not good English.

SRI AUROBINDO: Can't say without knowing the context. If it is something like "unbargaining hyaline of aspiration" it is all right.

NIRODBARAN: He seems to mean that "hyaline" is a fine word, while "bargaining" is common. So the two don't blend.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is an old idea. Sometimes such combinations are used more effectively, with more force.

NIRODBARAN: It seems that, while in Shantiniketan, Ajit used to be so absorbed in classes that he would teach for three or four hours at a stretch, at the expense of the other professors.

SRI AUROBINDO: Is that why he has been driven out from there?

NIRODBARAN: Don't know; more probably due to his habits.

EVENING

Anilbaran, discussing in one of his articles the causes of the degeneration of India, has written that its vitality was lost but one can't offer any explanation as to why it was lost.

SRI AUROBINDO: Why no explanation? Things get stereotyped and tied to forms and so degeneration sets in. It is everywhere the same. After long periods of activity, the degeneration comes unless the race finds a renewing source. For instance, when Buddhism came in as a shock, it pervaded the whole of life and brought in a new current everywhere. The saints and Bhaktas can't exert that kind of influence because their urge doesn't pervade the whole of life. It is confined to religion and hence degeneration may come in the life of a nation in spite of its saints and Bhaktas.

Anilbaran's point about Russian religion being mere superstition is only an echo.

Page -858

NIRODBARAN (after everybody had gone away): Dilip says that for music to be spiritual it must be conscious.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is all right.

NIRODBARAN: But can't one be unconsciously spiritual while singing? Can't one write spiritual poetry without knowing it?

SRI AUROBINDO: I don't see how one can. If one writes spiritual poetry, one will be conscious of it. Cesar Franck had a spiritual influence in his music. When Mother asked him if he knew that, he said, "Of course!" Dilip's music is spiritual due to long periods of devotional singing with words and music combined.

20 AUGUST 1940

PURANI: The Chinese Professor Tan Sen observed the 15th in Shantiniketan, it seems.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes.

Krishnalal has drawn a horse this month. Satyendra remarked that the horse has checked the German onslaught. In the Indian tradition the vahana or vehicle of KaIki, the last Avatar, is said to be the horse.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Krishnalal is very apposite and has some power of intuition. Just when the Germans began their attack, he painted an eagle, as if swooping down on its prey, and then there was the monkey picture representing the refugees. The picture of the goat represented the English waiting for the attack. And now the horse. He has a remarkable gift in drawing animals.

SATYENDRA: Here the horse has taken the classical pose.

NIRODBARAN: Dr. Amiya Sankar in his planchette sittings was told by Vivekananda's spirit that he wouldn't have his realisation in this life, that he would die about twenty-two years later, and that one year afterwards he would be born again with Vivekananda. Sri Aurobindo would still be alive and in that life Amiya Sankar would have his realisation. "Is that true?" he asks. (There was a burst of laughter as the information was conveyed.)

SRI AUROBINDO: Has he any justification for belief in these things?

NIRODBARAN: He says he got two things right-one about the possibility of a sea-voyage. The spirit said "Yes" and it was correct.

Page -859

SRI AUROBINDO: Anyone could say that. Our Baroda instances are more striking than that.

SATYENDRA: How does he know it was Vivekanand's spirit?

SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. Vivekananda's spirit must have other things to do by now.

NIRODBARAN: He said also that Amiya Sankar had been Sri Chaitanya's playmate. (Laughter)

SRI AUROBINDO: Was it found true? (Laughter)

SATYENDRA: Why should great souls come to such sittings?

SRI AUROBINDO: What people wonder at is they should come and talk all sorts of rubbish. These things, as far as they are not communications from the subconscient mind, are communications of lower forces, even vital-physical ones. I remember one instance. In Calcutta I went to attend a sitting. The spirit violently objected to my presence and said that it was painful to him. In another instance the spirit was asked to prove his presence by eating a sandesh which was there. Somebody took hold of the sandesh and ask take it from him by force. His hand got so twisted that he cried out in pain. Evidently something was there apart from the communication of his subconscient mind.

PURANI: Moore has reviewed the second volume of The Life Divine.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but he hasn't understood it. He wants me to go back to politics for the establishment of the New World Order, while I have said that it is not through politics that it will come.

NIRODBARAN: He seems to have said that England will form the nucleus of the New Order.

SRI AUROBINDO: If France had accepted England's offer of joint citizenship, it might have been so.

EVENING

PURANI: The Italians have occupied British Somaliland. In the popular mind this may cause some loss of prestige for the British.People will say, "Even the Italians couldn't be defeated?"

SRI AUROBINDO: But the British didn't want to defend that territory. They decided at the very start not to defend it. They say it is of no strategic importance. I expected them to withdraw; in fact I foresaw it. No, in war minor points must be sacrificed for greater

Page -860

ones. Egypt and Palestine are more important. I wonder if they have sufficient forces there.

PURANI: Egypt wants to defend hereself now. Such neutrality as Egypt's is worse than belligerency.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. I have the impression that the British haven't enough forces there. In Syria they have only 200,000 troops or so. Of course, it is the French defection that has exposed their flanks.

PURANI : Yes, they relied on the French troops.

SRI AUROBINDO : Gibraltar and the Suez are points of vital importance. England by itself can be defended, perhaps, but if these are lost then it will be dangerous for England.

PURANI: If Spain doesn't come in then Gibraltar can be defended.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is the whole point.

NIRODBARAN: Now that England has regained her prestige, Spain may hesitate to join Germany. In Alexandria the French have joined De Gaulle, it seems.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. (Looking at Purani) Have you seen De Gaulle's photo? He seems a strong man and young.

21 AUGUST 1940

PURANI: Churchill in his speech appears to have said that France will be compelled to declare war against England.

SRI AUROBINDO: Has he said that? Or what has he actually said? For if he has said that, there must be some truth in it. He wouldn't have said it if he didn't know something. It is of tremendous importance for us.

NIRODBARAN: It won't come quite as a surprise. One by one the Vichy Government is taking steps leading to that.

SATYENDRA: The world seems to be getting chaotic. But if such a thing happens, the British Government will grab Pondy at once.

NIRODBARAN: The British Government has thanked the Nizam for his contribution. But the Nizam must be smarting and cursing within for the loss of his money.

SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): They specially thanked Sir Akbar for it,

Page -861

NIRODBARAN: The rumour about the naval bases being ceded to America seems to be true, though it was rejected at first as baseless.

PURANI: And the American Navy will patrol the Canadian waters, they say.

SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): It is practically an alliance.

NIRODBARAN: Some sections say that this is a move towards joining the war. How slowly and carefully Roosevelt is moving!

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he will be freer after November. Of course, the Congress will still be there, but the Congress also will be freer. Even if he is not reelected as President, he may bind the next President to some course of action; for the next President comes in January, I believe.

NIRODBARAN: England can hold out till November, I hope.

SATYENDRA: Oh yes. In winter the operations have to be slower.

PURANI: Hitler is trying to find Britain's weak spots by these small air attacks. But if Spain and France join Hitler -

SRI AUROBINDO: Then it will be formidable.

PURANI: Hitler is trying to drag in France.

SRI AUROBINDO: In that case, it will end in a revolution in France. The French are already reluctant to fight Germany. They will be still more so against Britain.

EVENING

Purani asked Sri Aurobindo if he had finished Coomaraswamy's book on art and what he thought about it.

SRI AUROBINDO: His book is one-sided. No doubt, art is cosmic, universal; it is not concerned with personality. But the artist expresses his inspiration and in that there must be the stamp of his individuality, as you find in the case of great artists and poets. Take for instance the Greek poets or the French dramatists. They follow the same tradition, national custom, etc., but each has his own individual stamp. An artist does not express his personality, but it is stamped on his work.

PURANI: Coomaraswamy says Leonardo da Vinci followed tradition, there is no stamp of personality on his art.

SRI AUROBINDO: Not correct.

Page -862

What Coomaraswamy says about the inner and the outer vision is correct and interesting. The East has followed the inner vision in art, while the West the outer; but by outer is not meant simply the surface but the deeper things of the world.

22 AUGUST 1940

EVENING

There was talk again about the Baron-Schomberg affair; it was said that it was Schomberg who had made all the mischief.

PURANI: Ali has heard from somebody that you have remarked about his progress since Darshan.

SRI AUROBINDO: When did I say that?

PURANI: That was what I was wondering about. I told him that you might have said you had been pleased with him or something like that. Alys said, "Sri Aurobindo doesn't say anything about me! Every time it is Ali and Ali. He doesn't find me good, perhaps!" (Laughter) I consoled her.

SRI AUROBINDO: You could have said that it goes without saying in her case.

23 AUGUST 1940

EVENING

SRI AUROBINDO: The Viceroy, it seems, has wired to Bonvain that the Governor of Bengal wants Baron back in Pondicherry. He won't accept the man who is to replace him. When Schomberg was told this news, he broke down.

It came out that Schomberg was a staunch Catholic and had taken Holy Orders and so was as good as a priest. He was therefore working under the influence of the priests here. Baron being in connection with us, the priests had turned against him.

SRI AUROBINDO: Schomberg is a Jesuit. There is a general opinion that a Jesuit can tell any lie if it serves the glory of God.

Page -863

Today's news announced Trotsky's death at an assassin's hand. Somebody said, "Stalin's last enemy is gone!" He was in dread of Trotsky, it seems.

NIRODBARAN: But how is it Trotsky was thrown out by Stalin?

SRI AUROBINDO: He was a good organiser, but not a man to lead a revolution. He did not have sufficient vital force to support his action. That doesn't mean he was not a man of action, but he acted with his brain rather than with the vital force. Stalin has more vital force. He has no intellect, but has a clever and cunning brain. Lenin combined both intellect and vital force. Trotsky's actions were more of an intellectual nature. His very cut of face shows that he is more of an intellectual type. Such people work better under a leader, not by themselves. Like Subhas Bose, for instance. He did very good work under Das.

Here Purani mentioned some people in Gujarat who could work only under somebody's guidance.

SRI AUROBINDO: Charu Dutt's summary of The Life Divine is not bad. But there are one or two mistakes. He says that I have derived my technique from Shankara. What does he mean by technique? I don't know that I have got my technique from anybody. Again, he says that I have laid insistence on service to humanity.

PURANI: That is perhaps the old idea people are repeating.

24 AUGUST 1940

PURANI: Spain is not very eager to join Italy and Germany, it seems.

SRI AUROBINDO : No, this British resistance has removed manydangers.

PURANI : Spain is getting financial help from Britain for reconstruction of her Government, and she must be afraid of a British blockade if she joins Hitler.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. To get help from Hitler in financial matters is the least thing possible.

Page -864

EVENING

SRI AUROBINDO: The Governor has warned Baron against Schomberg, saying that he is a scoundrel and will try to do harm to him. The charge against Baron is that he mixed with revolutionaries.

PURANI: Meaning us?

SRI AUROBINDO: Who else could it be? This Viceroy seems to be kanpatla (credulous). What Schomberg said he quietly believed and acted on it, and now what the Bengal Governor says he believes! That is why his conferences are not successful.

PURANI: Yes, he is influenced by the opinion of the Civil Service.

SRI AUROBINDO: This Bengal Governor seems to be a man of will.

25 AUGUST 1940

PURANI: Baudoin is speaking like Hitler.

SRI AUROBINDO: How?

PURANI: He says Britain is continuing the war and will bring ruin on the world because of it. As Hitler says, "I don't see why the war should go on." (Laughter)

NIRODBARAN: Baudoin says it would have been cowardly and derogatory to leave France and fight German from the colonies.

SRI AUROBINDO: It is cowardice to fight but heroism to surrender. He is another scoundrel and swindler like Laval. Many of these people had their money deposited in Germany before the war and when the war broke out Hitler stopped all payments except to these people in order to keep them in his hands.

26 AUGUST 1940

Anilbaran has again asked why the vitality of a nation is lost after a certain time and the nation degenerates. He says that for him it is inexplicable.

SRI AUROBINDO: Why inexplicable? There are many factors. It would take too long to list them all, but the essential thing is that in

Page -865

every civilisation and culture there is a period of decline unless some new force is found, a process of new birth to give a fresh impulse to the life-force. Otherwise the old life-force gets exhausted and, if not renewed, the nation decays. The same thing happened with the Greek and Roman civilisations.

PURANI: Could it be that some higher beings took birth and built the Greek civilisation?

SRI AUROBINDO: How? The Greek civilisation was not spiritual. It was intellectual and aesthetic; it was more subtle and delicate than the Roman civilisation, which was more massive and had more strength and discipline than the Greek. That is why it lasted longer than the Greek civilisation.

EVENING

Purani spoke of some healer with occult power somewhere in Uttar Pradesh — an educated man. He had performed many miraculous cures, even cures of mad people. The cases had been verified by Abhay. But one thing peculiar was that he didn't have that descent of power after food, so there was no cure after eating.

SRI AUROBINDO: The physical may not be in a proper condition after food. Food lowers the consciousness.

29 AUGUST 1940

Purani spoke to Sri Aurobindo about a professor of psychology at Delhi College, who had promised Abhay to give his services to some national! cause. Abhay now wants him at Gurukul, according to his promise. But the professor hesitates on many grounds. The main reason is that there is no freedom of expression there. So he is in difficulty over the decision.

SRI AUROBINDO: Abhay is very keen on service.

PURANI : Yes, and also on keeping to one's promise. He couldn't forgive Govindbhai's coming here, only because Govindbhai had given his promise that he would serve under Gandhi.

SRI AUROBINDO: Suppose I promise to go to Calcutta in six months. If it turns out disadvantageous, must I still go because of my

Page -866

promise? He should take some training under Meher Baba. (Laughter) What would he say to Meher Baba's bringing people all the way to India from England to take them to China and then changing the plan and turning them back? But such things are nearer to spirituality than these fixed ideas, because one is not bound to anything.

PURANI: This professor, knowing some psychology, tries to give psychological treatment by suggestions. But he is not sure if he is doing right or doing harm.

SRI AUROBINDO: All depends on the suggestions.

PURANI: Those usual things about suppression.

SRI AUROBINDO: But it is not always true that what is suppressed rushes up some time later. One has to consider the contrary thing also, that indulging them may become a habit. Just as suppressed actions may rise up later, so too by indulgence one doesn't become free of them.

Page -867